One Step Closer

[Therean]

Fair enough.

Anyhow, decriminalising pot means dismantling several national industries. Think of how many people are either incarcerated due to drug offences (USA has the highest rate of incarceration in the world, due largely to this), then consider how many people are employed in law enforcement (again, usa has one of the hugest justice departments in the world, due largely to the war on drugs). Hundreds of thousands of people employed in prisons, in the police, highway patrol, dea, and all that other shit. The government pays contractors to build, and then service prisons. Sometimes, the prisons themselves are private, working off government contract.

If Obama federally legalised pot today, all of those jobs and companies would go under- moreover manyfold more would be negatiely impacted from this source of wasteful-yet-plentiful government spending. The lobbyists would hit the roof, and offer a boatload of conditional cash to the republicans. Next up we'll be hearing about Obama the soft-on-crime, job destroyer. Which is a load of shit- but nevertheless how it would be.

The Prison-industrial complex. Like most public sectors, it is too profitable for a substantial minority to close down- even though it runs at the undeniable absolute detriment of the many.

[Greebo]

Nothing ever happens if people don't demand it. Start small, win big.

[Ashenfury]

Just because people would lose jobs doesn't mean that what we're trying to accomplish is wrong.

Those same jobs could be made up by the all new marijuana industry. I would be interested to see how many people Philip Morris employs vs how many work for prisons. I'm sure the prison number is much higher but it's still a valid if-then.

EDIT: You would also see explosive growth in treatment centers, research centers, glass blowers, head shop owners and brownie consumption.

[Duskheron]

The consistency of it suggests to me that there must be some kind of reason behind it, beyond isolated mod wankery.

The reason you see so many forum mods cracking down on political and religious topics is they are divisive in an environment where you are trying to promote inclusion. Even when the topic starts out as thoughtful as your posts are, eventually they *may* lead down the road to "You suck. No, you suck." /gquit

While I like to think everyone currently in the Grim is above that sort of childishness, it's a potential headache that can be easily avoided by just saying no.

edit: You and Ironskull should hook up. I'd love to see you guys discussing something interesting.

[Greebo]

everyone currently in the Grim is above that sort of childishness

Sangjai hates children.

[Krinathalasa]

And Canadians

[Duskheron]

Pfft. Sangjai hates everyone.

[Therean]

Just because people would lose jobs doesn't mean that what we're trying to accomplish is wrong.

Those same jobs could be made up by the all new marijuana industry. I would be interested to see how many people Philip Morris employs vs how many work for prisons. I'm sure the prison number is much higher but it's still a valid if-then.

EDIT: You would also see explosive growth in treatment centers, research centers, glass blowers, head shop owners and brownie consumption.

Oh I totally agree. But that is where the opposition lies- more so in the USA than anywhere else. You have a huge law enforcement establishment, built largely on the war on drugs. Legalisation represents a major reshuffling- worse still a reshuffling that wealthy interests are against.

That said, as you and some others have touched on, public will is like water. Easily pushed aside, but relentless and pervasive. with time, rivers destroy mountains, oceans smash cliff-faces to silt. Sooner or later, the people will get what they want. You might argue they already have it to a certain extent. Anyone can get access to weed if they want it. Nominal legalisation will occur bottom up- from local tolernce, to state government via the electoral college, then eventually to federal government. Not the other way around. It will be a gradual process, methinks, in the case of the USA.

Australia, on the other hand, could legalise tomorrow at federal level with few problems.

[Therean]

The reason you see so many forum mods cracking down on political and religious topics is they are divisive in an environment where you are trying to promote inclusion. Even when the topic starts out as thoughtful as your posts are, eventually they *may* lead down the road to "You suck. No, you suck." /gquit

While I like to think everyone currently in the Grim is above that sort of childishness, it's a potential headache that can be easily avoided by just saying no.

edit: You and Ironskull should hook up. I'd love to see you guys discussing something interesting.

Of course, I miss the most obvious details at times. Even being articulate, I can see what you mean. A heated argument, two recalcitrant posters, one lays the smack down and either upsets or embarrasses the other. Gquit or leave of absence if he feels the rest of the grim through inaction also thinks he's stupid.

Ironskull eh?

[Greebo]

Ironskull eh?

Not to be confused with Irontoe.

[Guduk]

The lose of jobs in the Law enforcement section of the States would actually not be hit as hard as some may think, depending on how the country goes about legalizing the product. Right now they are hunting down Illegal growth of Pot in USA by Helicopter, finding these spots out in the middle of the woods and cutting them down and arresting who they can, though they are just happy cutting down the crop as that is a nice lose of profit to whom ever is growing.

If legalized, these same people would continue to do their job -if- the country makes it legal 'By Permit'
i.e. You can only grow if you hold the legal papers to grow such a product.
So then they just have to hunt down the people still growing illegally. But we just made their jobs even harder.

[Cristok]

I think the legalization of weed should be considered from a social justice perspective, not as a jobs program. There are certainly sectors of the economy that would be harmed/benefit but overall the prohibition effort is a drain on our people and this is something I think everyone agrees (in this thread so far).

[Hektar]

Drugs are bad mmm-kay?

[Therean]

I think the legalization of weed should be considered from a social justice perspective, not as a jobs program. There are certainly sectors of the economy that would be harmed/benefit but overall the prohibition effort is a drain on our people and this is something I think everyone agrees (in this thread so far).

I'm not sure I believe in social justice. But that is more of a taxonomical dispute. I do agree that the legalisation of drugs is a human problem. That said, I think it is the economics of the matter (as always), that will yield solutions. If anything is to pry open the giant clusterfuck of circular crap that is the government led, enforced, funded, and perpetuated war on drugs- it will be the vast economic incentives for it to end.

[Ashenfury]

it will be the vast economic incentives for it to end.

I can agree with this.