4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons Magic Spells

[Kharzak]

http://www.enweirdenment.org/cgi-bin/topbot?list00315

[Thellash]

For all the problems people have with 4E, I really like it.  They've done some good things, and anytime you change something up a lot, there will be those who QQ.

[Yichimet]

I've actually only heard good things from the people who play it (besides my cranky brother-in-law, who would only be happy if the rule book was 800 pages and you had to be an actual lawyer to play the game).

But damn, those are some funny spell names. I think my favorite is the "albums back from ex" one, heh.

[Cristok]

"Charm Under-grad"

[Erzsebet]

Ha!  I picked the same one, Yichi, as most amusing.

[gurthoira]

way cool

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/games/cf7e/

[Anaie]

4e is very well done, I have to admit.  The biggest complaint I hear is that it does not have any rules for RP... to which I tell those idiots, "YOU DON'T NEED RULES FOR RP!!!!" *sigh* Anyhoot... good stuff kharzak!

[Agrovale]

Meh I've played 4th edition and was so not impressed.  If I wanted to play WoW I'd log into my computer and play it.  I don't want WoW on paper.  Now my books fight dustbunnies underneath my bed.  Might have to go sell them at Half Priced books.

[Bloodscream]

Obviously not everyone thinks its as funny as I do. The circle is complete!

It's safe to say that D&D and WOW are both on the same evolution tree in gaming.

I find it amusing that D&D has become a pen and paper version of WOW.

It seems incestuous a smidge but very amusing.

[Thellash]

Since when is 4th Edition like WoW?  I do hear people complaining about it some on the wizards forums, but I really don't see how they are becoming one in the same. Aside form just saying that D&D is the pen and paper version of WoW, I'd love to hear you give some reasons.  Because I believe the differences faaaaar outweigh the similarities.  I love 4th Ed.  It's smart, it's well set up, and a lot of thought went into it.  Sure they threw out the old books and started from scratch, and in doing so D&D got a sort of new luster to it.  I'll admit that having power cards is a new feature, and at-wills, encounters, and dailies, but that makes it more like other card games than WoW.

4th Ed. was a revitalizing of D&D, they put a lot of thought into the rules, and the wording of those rules.  They put considerable effort into balancing, and creating classes and monsters who acted and felt real, but weren't easily broken.  They put a strong emphasis on the fact that the DM is supposed to work with the players, not against them (up yours 2nd Ed.).  So how then is 4th Ed. the tabletop version of WoW?

I do look forward to heaing responses, I admit that I have my opinion, and not having a glimpse at exactly what some are talking about it is hard to see the other side of the argument.

[Caelum]

One thing I personally 'like' about 4th edition is the fact it doesn't define in absolutes how your suppose to judge RP encounters as a DM. Not only did this allow me to set up my own system, without being hogtied by the one player who is book obsessed, but I can allow my players to pull 'far' more stuff outta their ass then the straight-jacket of 3.5 allowed. Not to mention unless you proactively policed you players as they were leveling up or defined specifically which prestiege classes were allowed the old system was literally 'made' broken.

Only thing I 'hated' about 4e is the Ritual and Crafting systems. I ended up building my own adaptation of the Ritual system to provide a way for players to access the tools the 3.5 wizard formerly allowed.

[Bloodscream]

Allright now, let's not get carried away.

  How is D&D like WOW? Oh I dunno...they added aggro, define clear roles a la MMORPG tanks, ranhed dps, melee dps, healers, support.
  Mobs now have aggro tables.
  Classes have special directional maneuvers, taunts...

  Considering I been playing D&D since the Basic Edition... trust me on this one... 4th Ed is a pen and paper version of the Warcraft combat mechanics.

[Khorshah]

Allright now, let's not get carried away.

  How is D&D like WOW? Oh I dunno...they added aggro, define clear roles a la MMORPG tanks, ranhed dps, melee dps, healers, support.
  Mobs now have aggro tables.
  Classes have special directional maneuvers, taunts...

  Considering I been playing D&D since the Basic Edition... trust me on this one... 4th Ed is a pen and paper version of the Warcraft combat mechanics.

They didn't add aggro. Enemies have nothing even remotely like 'aggro tables'. I'm not sure what you mean by 'directional maneuvers', and while 'taunts' could be said to exist, they work nothing like taunts in World of Warcraft do. I could go into the actual mechanics, but I suspect it'd be wasted effort.

The 'clear roles' that people complain about are much, much less clear than you might think. I have a Fighter in one game (a Defender class, or tank) whose primary role in the group is damage-dealing; I have a Druid in another game who's nearly impossible to hurt and makes enemies hate him, even though the class 'role' is 'squishy controller'.

Have you actually played the game, Blood, or just glanced through a rulebook and listened to people on forums bitching about it?

The concepts that D&D 4 took from World of Warcraft (and other MMOs) were this:

- Players should feel like their characters are some degree of 'awesome' at all levels of game play.
- Abilities and powers should have clearly defined effects, with consistent wording.
- Classes should be roughly balanced against other classes that share the same role.
- Each class should lean towards a particular role in a group; Fighters should be able to take hits, Rogues should dish out damage, Wizards should make their enemies' lives miserable, and Clerics should be able to heal.
- At the same time, NO class should be left without something interesting to do every round. The Cleric should not spend all his time healing, the Rogue should not be limited to pure damage, the Wizard should occasionally be encouraged to just Fireball the crap out of something, and the Fighter should get to do more than just get hit in the head.
- You don't need mechanics to govern roleplaying; if the dice must enter the story, let it be in combat, or in specific Skill Challenges, not in everyday interactions.

I've been playing the game for months now, and it's definitely very different from WoW. Do they share some basic philosophies? Sure. But the mechanics are by no means identical.

[Thellash]

Well put Khorshah!

[Erzsebet]

Don't know if it was just my craptacular rolling this weekend or what, but I have to give high level 4E a "meh."  The best thing I got was a single 100~ dmg Magic Missile and the rest is a fleeting memory of unimpressiveness and whiffs.

I can see what Blood means by taunting and aggro, but honestly, if the DM acts on "if my Pit Fiend attacks SirSquish over BlahBlahPaladin he's going to take - oh no! - 45 dmg" then he's just dense as a stone.